Tulpa.info - tulpa-discussion

Ulithium_Dragon | Maledy | Freya

I still take issue with calling any of this "rascist", though. At worst, it's cultural appropriation.

cultural appropriation has a specific definition, Tulpa only kind of fits, and is a part of racism (the cultural phenomenon). This is a distinction without a difference

A long kiss goodnight

This is new: https://www.magicaldruid.com/product/created-spirits-3-tulpa-creation-method-/4103?cp=true&sa=false&sbp=false&q=false&category_id=16

what

blanka

no fuckin way people are paying for webcam footage of someone describing very basic guides from tulpa.info

ikr... it's almost as bad as people who pay for media/games/software

sh

ikr... it's almost as bad as people who pay for media/games/software

yeah who even does that nowadays

Rascist implies that there was a willful intention to degrade, or deumanize a subsection of humanity based on defining factions that clump a group of people together (skin tone, culture, etc.). Where in any of this was the intention to be harmful?

funny spelling mistake

Where. I'm a poor speller and have a form of dylexia. I legitimatly can stare at what I wrote and not read the typos lol.

Ulithium_Dragon | Maledy | Freya

Rascist implies that there was a willful intention to degrade, or deumanize a subsection of humanity based on defining factions that clump a group of people together (skin tone, culture, etc.). Where in any of this was the intention to be harmful?

mmm no. Racism can happen without explicit intent. Racism is a cultural phenomenon wherein people are separated into groups with traits that are typically outwardly and immediately visible. There is a lot more to it than intent

Well. Not according to classical definations

10:05 PM

So you're okay with repurposing the word rascism but not tulpa?

Ulithium_Dragon | Maledy | Freya

Well. Not according to classical definations

Those classical definitions were written by racists to prop the institute of racism up in a post-civil-rights world

But this is kinda my point... word definitions change and evolve over time

Siding with Ulithium on this ngl

blanka

Those classical definitions were written by racists to prop the institute of racism up in a post-civil-rights world

That is an opinionated statement.

but who changes them and with what motivations

I believe that Alexandra David-Neel was acting in good faith and honestly was trying to do her due dilligence. She was in uncharted territory though, and where she traveled was forbidden anyway (she traveled in disguise).

I'm not saying people of that era weren't rascist

10:06 PM

But to say EVERYONE from an era was X is not any better

Ulithium_Dragon | Maledy | Freya

But this is kinda my point... word definitions change and evolve over time

It’s like wyverns and dragons, there was a clear distinction and now even hobbit calls a wyvern a dragon

Ulithium_Dragon | Maledy | Freya

That is an opinionated statement.

Maybe, but the current scientific research into racism disagrees. Racism is not simply personal prejudice, it is much larger than that. It is a cultural institution that has been around since the 1st Crusades.

Its been around since the dawn of humanity

KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk

It’s like wyverns and dragons, there was a clear distinction and now even hobbit calls a wyvern a dragon

how to tame your wyvern doesn't quite hit the same way

Ulithium_Dragon | Maledy | Freya

Rascist implies that there was a willful intention to degrade, or deumanize a subsection of humanity based on defining factions that clump a group of people together (skin tone, culture, etc.). Where in any of this was the intention to be harmful?

with the term tulpa? iirc yes, it was borne from use in a book that sensationalized and mystified the tibetans in a very racist, removed way a lá "the uncultured savages of the jungle" type beat

1

Ulithium_Dragon | Maledy | Freya

Its been around since the dawn of humanity

Tribalism has, racism has not. Racism is something more specific than tribalism.

Homo sapians have an ingrained instinct to dislike anything that seems different

10:07 PM

You can see that in the uncanney valley phenominon

people get offended for good reasons and for bad reasons not sure if being offended for someone without knowing they would take it as an issue or as something positive (“at least they are interested in my culture!” Etc) is a good reason

Ulithium_Dragon | Maledy | Freya

Homo sapians have an ingrained instinct to dislike anything that seems different

This is a very strong statement with no evidence

good to be careful i guess

kaybee

with the term tulpa? iirc yes, it was borne from use in a book that sensationalized and mystified the tibetans in a very racist, removed way a lá "the uncultured savages of the jungle" type beat

didn't everything about other cultures do that back then

sh

didn't everything about other cultures do that back then

and now

blanka

This is a very strong statement with no evidence

Look up uncanney valley. Most people are uncomfortable looking at anything it looks "almost" right, but not quite. Esepcially when it comes to human faces

kaybee

with the term tulpa? iirc yes, it was borne from use in a book that sensationalized and mystified the tibetans in a very racist, removed way a lá "the uncultured savages of the jungle" type beat

americans do it to themselves nowadays

i'm not one to dissuade anyone from something because, honestly, i don't fucking care enough about what people do outside of infringing on the freedoms of others, but i'm just gonna stop using the term as much as possible

Pleeb

I believe that Alexandra David-Neel was acting in good faith and honestly was trying to do her due dilligence. She was in uncharted territory though, and where she traveled was forbidden anyway (she traveled in disguise).

While I agree she wasn't trying to sell Tibetan Buddhism or spread colonialism, she did treat other Tibetan Buddhists badly Honestly she really is the OG tulpamancer- has a trauma history, wants to be alone, looking for an escape, and would have been on 4chan if it existed then

2

you are connecting something from facial recognition to social tendencies, and skipping over the fact that our current culture affects how we see the social things

1

Look up uncanney valley. Most people are uncomfortable looking at anything it looks "almost" right, but not quite. Esepcially wh...

@Ulithium_Dragon | Maledy | Freya - jump I like my dog, and they're very different from me. I like my partner, and they're different. I know what the uncanny valley is, but like. "Humans hate things that are different" is a very universal statement, MUCH more universal than

But to say EVERYONE from an era was X is not any better

I can find some research on this subject if you like but perception is subjective. There have also been a lot of studies to show that humans have a harder time identifying each other outside of the ethnic group that they belong to. The whole "you all look the same to me" syndrome. This is not isolated to a single race, it is present in every one of them.

A long kiss goodnight

While I agree she wasn't trying to sell Tibetan Buddhism or spread colonialism, she did treat other Tibetan Buddhists badly Honestly she really is the OG tulpamancer- has a trauma history, wants to be alone, looking for an escape, and would have been on 4chan if it existed then

she did treat other Tibetan Buddhists badly

I apologize for missing the quote where you talked about this, but may you elaborate? (edited)

blanka

This is a very strong statement with no evidence

well there was the study that might relate to it, you might have seen it, about showing people 100 chineese characters and after two weeks showing 200 and asking one group “which one do you remember” and the other group “which ones do you like” people in the latter group scored much higher

i've always kinda mildly disliked the term tulpa because of its #metaphysics feeling to me it feels kinda sus to me

sh

didn't everything about other cultures do that back then

is that any excuse to propagate it any further?

sh

i've always kinda mildly disliked the term tulpa because of its #metaphysics feeling to me it feels kinda sus to me

tulpamancy makes it even worsr

so i'm glad so many people will be joining me in avoiding it for alternatives like 'headmate'

blank

Look up uncanney valley. Most people are uncomfortable looking at anything it looks "almost" right, but not quite. Esepcially wh...

@Ulithium_Dragon | Maledy | Freya - jump I like my dog, and they're very different from me. I like my partner, and they're different. I know what the uncanny valley is, but like. "Humans hate things that are different" is a very universal statement, MUCH more universal than

But to say EVERYONE from an era was X is not any better

You're twisting my words. I did not say "hate"

KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk

tulpamancy makes it even worsr

exactly

sh

so i'm glad so many people will be joining me in avoiding it for alternatives like 'headmate'

you mean joining me!

tulpa sounds like an object to me

10:11 PM

something you own

im glad you joined me shield

Pleeb

she did treat other Tibetan Buddhists badly

I apologize for missing the quote where you talked about this, but may you elaborate? (edited)

It was directly stated in the proquest article I read. I can get you the link if you want

KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk

well there was the study that might relate to it, you might have seen it, about showing people 100 chineese characters and after two weeks showing 200 and asking one group “which one do you remember” and the other group “which ones do you like” people in the latter group scored much higher

This is interesting, I'd be curious to see the source of this if you can find it later.

A long kiss goodnight

It was directly stated in the proquest article I read. I can get you the link if you want

Just a page and paragraph number would do.

kaybee

is that any excuse to propagate it any further?

oh no that's not what i meant at all... i was pointing out how you should kind of expect that from stuff back then

10:12 PM

set your expectations low and wear a biohazard suit

KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk

well there was the study that might relate to it, you might have seen it, about showing people 100 chineese characters and after two weeks showing 200 and asking one group “which one do you remember” and the other group “which ones do you like” people in the latter group scored much higher

I hadn't heard of that one, that sounds really interesting

to expect it, sure, but it's still frustrating to see/recognise it happening

blanka

This is interesting, I'd be curious to see the source of this if you can find it later.

sure, but feel free to take it with a grain of salt, you know how it is with psychologica studies and how after decades it turns out the data was skewed

Ulithium_Dragon | Maledy | Freya

I hadn't heard of that one, that sounds really interesting

i will post it in genera and tag you and @blanka

1

Ulithium_Dragon | Maledy | Freya

I can find some research on this subject if you like but perception is subjective. There have also been a lot of studies to show that humans have a harder time identifying each other outside of the ethnic group that they belong to. The whole "you all look the same to me" syndrome. This is not isolated to a single race, it is present in every one of them.

I do think this is drawing too broad of a circle around your idea, though. I don't disagree that humans are built for tribalism, but to say there is an inescapable "human nature" that programs us to dislike each other is a very strange and universalist statement

KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk

sure, but feel free to take it with a grain of salt, you know how it is with psychologica studies and how after decades it turns out the data was skewed

I mean I dont think that means you should premtrivly invalidate every study without proof they were skewed.

Pleeb

Just a page and paragraph number would do.

It's not a long article: https://www.proquest.com/religion/docview/2525646297/2B442A533EFA4706PQ/12?accountid=13217

Barcode Required - ProQuest

Explore millions of resources from scholarly journals, books, newspapers, videos and more, on the ProQuest Platform.

KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk

sure, but feel free to take it with a grain of salt, you know how it is with psychologica studies and how after decades it turns out the data was skewed

yes, there is a huge replication crisis in the softer sciences. It is unfortunate

also being built for something doesnt mean you cant try to change towards something better

1

kaybee

to expect it, sure, but it's still frustrating to see/recognise it happening

the attitudes back then were all over the place. not just with culture, but how they treated money and labour/business/companies is all very different and often dark

aapeli 🟣🥫🥔 ae

also being built for something doesnt mean you cant try to change towards something better

and it is not an excuse to accept it, too. Very good point

A long kiss goodnight

It's not a long article: https://www.proquest.com/religion/docview/2525646297/2B442A533EFA4706PQ/12?accountid=13217

Yes but I really like people to point out directly what they're talking out speckifically with when she was treating people badly, rather than letting me guess. But I'll re-read it and try and guess if you don't have the direct quote. (I already do have the paper) (edited)

blanka

I do think this is drawing too broad of a circle around your idea, though. I don't disagree that humans are built for tribalism, but to say there is an inescapable "human nature" that programs us to dislike each other is a very strange and universalist statement

Human history is almost exclusivly "X tribe/country meets Y, and oppression/fighting invetiably ensues"

10:15 PM

This continues to this day

Ulithium_Dragon | Maledy | Freya

I can find some research on this subject if you like but perception is subjective. There have also been a lot of studies to show that humans have a harder time identifying each other outside of the ethnic group that they belong to. The whole "you all look the same to me" syndrome. This is not isolated to a single race, it is present in every one of them.

i think the type of fiction admiring transhumanism, especially in amateur writing circles within the last 2 decades or so, dismantles this idea at least a little

Assuming this is "the writing of the unwritten and the translation of the untranslatable: alexnadra david-néel’s reception in china" but if it it's not, I apologize again, because that's the only one I had.

Pleeb

Yes but I really like people to point out directly what they're talking out speckifically with when she was treating people badly, rather than letting me guess. But I'll re-read it and try and guess if you don't have the direct quote. (I already do have the paper) (edited)

Ah, I see. They do just say it without elaboration

(I can't view that link, I'm home)

kaybee

i think the type of fiction admiring transhumanism, especially in amateur writing circles within the last 2 decades or so, dismantles this idea at least a little

It's not as simple as I made this out to be, and there is some biases centered around exposure and institutional rascism. But to my knowledge it has not been definitivly discredited. (edited)

Seems like a non issue to me. “Oh it’s not real Tulpa unless it comes from the Tibetan plateau. Otherwise it’s just sparkling headmates.” This is silly to specify kappa

The modern new age Tulpa is its own beast now, regardless of what it was inspired by. A westerner practising Buddhism isn’t racist, just as a random kid online practicing Tulpamancy isn’t racist either. This is splitting hairs and making up issues where none have to be.

1

just say you have headmates... such a better word...

A long kiss goodnight

It's not a long article: https://www.proquest.com/religion/docview/2525646297/2B442A533EFA4706PQ/12?accountid=13217

Blah I thought you were referring to the China translate article. I can't view this one, I just get "Barcode required".

other terms are available (edited)

Just join the headmates club

They are interchangeable. Just as someone with DID also can have headmates

Ulithium_Dragon | Maledy | Freya

Human history is almost exclusivly "X tribe/country meets Y, and oppression/fighting invetiably ensues"

There are many more stories you could tell about why those things happened than "tribalism," though. Economics is a huge factor that many historians ignore, for example--in the original slave societies, land was conquered and people oppressed for the purposes of fattening the agricultural coffers; the tribal justifications came in afterwards. The Crusades started because of economic tensions with the east, racism was invented as a specific response to soldiers worrying if they would go to heaven.

Calling them headmates at least it gives you incentive to charge rent (edited)

blanka

There are many more stories you could tell about why those things happened than "tribalism," though. Economics is a huge factor that many historians ignore, for example--in the original slave societies, land was conquered and people oppressed for the purposes of fattening the agricultural coffers; the tribal justifications came in afterwards. The Crusades started because of economic tensions with the east, racism was invented as a specific response to soldiers worrying if they would go to heaven.

Economics is a huge factor

money, yeah. so true

blanka

There are many more stories you could tell about why those things happened than "tribalism," though. Economics is a huge factor that many historians ignore, for example--in the original slave societies, land was conquered and people oppressed for the purposes of fattening the agricultural coffers; the tribal justifications came in afterwards. The Crusades started because of economic tensions with the east, racism was invented as a specific response to soldiers worrying if they would go to heaven.

Economics and resource scarcity are often a big factor in why cultural clashes occur, you have a point there.

i'm in the camp of normalizing calling them "girlfriend/boyfriend/partner" :3c

Ulithium_Dragon | Maledy | Freya

Economics and resource scarcity are often a big factor in why cultural clashes occur, you have a point there.

And oftentimes, as in the crusades, racial and cultural justifications are invented explicitly after the conflict is started

Ulithium_Dragon | Maledy | Freya

Economics and resource scarcity are often a big factor in why cultural clashes occur, you have a point there.

do you mean wars?

1

Pleeb

Blah I thought you were referring to the China translate article. I can't view this one, I just get "Barcode required".

I think I have the pdf? I don’t remember though

Even if I have the title and the author.

KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk

Calling them headmates at least it gives you incentive to charge rent (edited)

wouldn't those be headtenants?

in which case...

"Long-term Travel and the Notion of Home: The Case of Alexandra David-Néel" got it... I think.

because inter-system relationships feel really really nice

blanka

There are many more stories you could tell about why those things happened than "tribalism," though. Economics is a huge factor that many historians ignore, for example--in the original slave societies, land was conquered and people oppressed for the purposes of fattening the agricultural coffers; the tribal justifications came in afterwards. The Crusades started because of economic tensions with the east, racism was invented as a specific response to soldiers worrying if they would go to heaven.

Racism being invented is such a funny sentence

Tbh untilimatly what does it matter what we call the perscences in our minds, anymore than it matters what we think they are (spirits, thoughtforms, etc.) The only thing that really matters, at least to me, is that they are real, and I love them~

KiTkAT( •̀ .̫ •́ )✧/jk

Calling them headmates at least it gives you incentive to charge rent (edited)

no, they live in your head rent free

blanka

wouldn't those be headtenants?

i would call my tenants housemates to make it seem like i treat them equally

sometimes without asking, called squatters/alters

and still charge rent (edited)

twix doing capitalism with a human face